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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:42 pm 
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RCD Testing at both the 0 degree and 180 degree phases

I beleive that the Test and Tagging of appliances in New Zealand and Australia to the regulations set out in AS/NZS3760 require that the RCD is tested at both the 0 degree and 180 degree phase? (Please correct me if Im wrong!)

Currently SimplyPats only has space to record one trip time either at 0 degree phase or the 180, however not at both 0 and 180.

Many of the new testers that have RCD testing capability can send this information. E.g. the Metrel Sigma PAT MI3310.

Fortunately when SimplyPats 6 was started I left a couple of spare fields to store information within the data. I am now in the process of updating the RCD recording to include the testing information at both the 0 and 180 degree phases.

I will either ask Carl to provide a custom RCD report to show this information or more likely I will add a default Australian / New Zealand RCD report to the list of reports that can be printed.

This addition will be included in SimplyPats 6.0.5 due in October 2011.

Some testers do a ramp test which give a series of results in the data, however at this time i think it is unlikely that we will be able to add support for this.

It would be useful to me further clarification of this issue or whether adding both phases on the RCD report will be what's needed.

Richard.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:50 am 
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Hi Richard,

There are a number of Testers who do carry out the 0 degree and 180 degree phase tests. In doing so, it is possibly demonstating their competancy in understanding the RCD testing process.

In the Appendix related to RCD testing, within the AS/NZS 3760-2010 document, it makes mention within one of the explanatory notes about the 0 degree and 180 degree testing. In looking at, and the reading of, the wording of the particular Note and then looking at the meaning of certain words used in the document, as explained in the earlier part of the Standard, it is not compulsory for both tests to be carried out. This was pointed out to me by a member of the Committee that prepared AS/NZS 3760.

I purposely haven't quoted the relevant Appendix, Clause number and Note number and specific word definitions because of copywrite restrictions. For those Aust and NZ testers making the request to you for the modification of the RCD results screen within SP they should have another look at the Standard for further clarification.

The bottom line is that it is an option rather than a requirement to carry out both tests.

Hope this helps you decide as to whether you do or don't include the results of both tests in the Microwave/RCD Results screen.

Regards

Glenn


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:48 pm 
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Location: Plymouth
Today I had some plug in RCD adaptors to test. The 30mA ones that plug into an extension lead then you plug the appliance into the RCD.
I use the Megger CBT3 and note the results manually.
1st RCD worked fine and tripped as it should do.
2nd RCD wouldn't reset itself so was failled.
3rd RCD (new out of the packet) passed the "no trip" 1/2 I test on the 0 deg but tripped on the 180 deg test.

So proof that both need to be done


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:42 pm 
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Many thanks for the feedback Rich.

Glad this work may also be of interest to our users in the UK as well as our Australian and New Zealand.

I think we have almost completed a new RCD report for SimplyPats where the 0 and 180 degree phase results are shown. At the moment this is resticted to data downloaded from those testers that send the data out, however I will in the fullness of time add the ability to enter both phases in the RCD manual entry screen.

Regards, Richard.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:36 am 
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"For those Aust and NZ testers making the request to you for the modification of the RCD results screen within SP they should have another look at the Standard for further clarification."

The 0 and 180deg test on 10mA RCD's is mandatory under ASNZS3003-2011 so for a hospital this feature in SimplyPATS is very useful to us.
Regards,
Graham


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Hi Graham

Many thanks for your post, and for clarifying that

Quote:
The 0 and 180deg test on 10mA RCD's is mandatory under ASNZS3003-2011


I am hoping we are beginning to get our heads around RCD testing in Australia and New Zealand, hopefully the new SimplyPats printed report of RCD testing at 0 and 180 degrees will answer your requirements.

Regards, Richard.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:12 am 
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Location: New Zealand
AS/NZS 3760- 2010 does not require mandatory testing of RCDs at both the 0 degree and 180 degree tests.
In a Hospital situation the testing is done under AS/NZS 3551 and it is mandatory to record the results.
Just a note on this, in November I believe that the Electrical Regulations for New Zealand are going to change and where results are required to be kept, will be classified as Prescribed Electrical work.


Last edited by clive on Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:15 am 
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Location: New Zealand
AS/NZS 3760- 2010 does not require mandatory testing of RCDs at both the 0 degree and 180 degree tests.
In a Hospital situation the testing is done under AS/NZS 3551 and it is mandatory to record the results.
Just a note on this, in November I believe that the Electrical Regulations for New Zealand are going to change and where results are required to be kept, will be classified as Prescribed Electrical work.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Hi Clive

Many thanks for your post on this. We will endeavour to keep up with the regs.

Quote:
Just a note on this, in November I believe that the Electrical Regulations for New Zealand are going to change and where results are required to be kept


Hopefully by November the 6.0.5 update will be out (I am hoping that it will be in the next week or so) and that the 0 and 180 results will be stored correctly and can be printed.

Regards, Richard.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:47 am 
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In a hospital situation AS/NZS 3551 is the standard for medical devices like electrocardiographs, incubators, etc. -electrical medical appliances.
AS/NZS 3003-2011 covers electrical installations in patient areas and includes RCD testing.
Regards,
Graham


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:51 am 
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Graham is correct in his interpretation with regards to AS/NZS3003 2011 but as he has correctly stated this standard refers to In Patient Installations. I think Portable Appliance Testing is different to Certifying Electrical Installations.
Regards Clive


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:14 am 
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Location: Leeton, NSW Australia
Hi Richard,

To add futher to the discussions on this topic and as a response to a PM from Carl in recent times (29 Feb 2012) I put forward the following.

To enter RCD results into SP the dual Microwave- RCD drop down screen is used. If my memory is correct this was introduced in one of the early versions of SP6 and then modified in a later version.

Considering the earlier comments in this forum topic, what possibility is there to split this data entry screen into stand alone Microwave and RCD screens?

The microwave component of the screen remains unchanged containing the current data input.

The RCD screen be further modified to satisfy the Aust/NZ users and the ocassional UK user who wants to test 180 degrees out of phase. The current SP version does this but should be modified to also include the same test parameters for the 0 degrees testing.

My suggestion is to have the top portion of the RCD screen showing just the 0 degrees test paramaters for the UK users. The bottom part be used for the Down Under users of SP and those UK users who also test in the 180 degrees out of phase testing as well as the 0 degrees testing. The AS/NZS3760 has a test current of either 10 mA or 30mA and the trip time is measured as shown in documentation sent in a PM. However, although not required by the Standard, there are some Aust/NZ taggers who also test for the RCD trip current for the maximum trip times. The Metrel MI2120 RCD tester has this capability and there are a number of people down under who do use this machine.

In addition the MI120 unit, although not required by the Standard, has the capability of performing a 50% sensitivity differential current as well as a 5 fold differential current. I am aware of a few Aus/NZ testers who also carry out these tests as shown in documents attached in my 30 Sept 2011 and earlier PMs to you.

If my thoughts can be considered and or achieved then the requirements of all the contributors within this particular forum can be satisfied. If need be I can give you a call at a suitable time to both.

Thanks

Glenfer
(Glenn)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:35 am 
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Thanks for your comments Glenfer and all the help you have provided thus far regarding the recording of RCD results in SimplyPats.

We can certainly look into your request and see if it will be possible to separate the RCD and Microwave Data Entry into two separate screens/areas.

I can’t say too much at the moment, but we have been working on a couple of other projects which are directly linked to SimplyPats, one of these projects will add a lot of possibilities when it comes to managing your PAT Testing (Test and Tag) data and workflow. It will in the long term make it far easier for us to add and manipulate data fields and therefore allow for future expansion.

We will keep you all posted on the progress of this and give a more detailed explanation in the near future.

Carl


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:15 am 
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Hi Carl,

Thank you for the comments.

Glenn


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:32 am 
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Location: New Zealand
Hi Richard
There are different types of RCD,s and most common tested under AS/NZS3760 are PRCD,s which are the type generally found on Extension Leads. They require a voltage on them to operate initially and the following Tests are not required by this standard and the test for operating time using a.c.for type A RCDs is acceptable as d.c.calibration is linked to a.c.calibration and verified by the type test. I interpret this as a trip time test with the trip current applied being within specification.
Under The test conditions for RCDs some RCDs may have a different result (approx 10 ms) and in case of doubt, the operating time at both 0 and 180 degrees SHOULD be tested.
My interpretaion of the wording in the standard, SHALL Indicates a statement is mandatory to achieve compliance with the standard, SHOULD indicates a statement is preferred as indicating good practice, but is not mandatory. I hope this helps to clear up the confusion


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